Content Warning: fertility struggles, grief and loss
In this episode of Plain View, Elise and Kristine talk about the topic of grief: what it is, how it shows up, and the many forms it can take. They share their own stories of navigating infertility and the grief that comes with longing, uncertainty, and the less visible forms of grief that often go unnamed.
This is a deeply personal conversation about how we grieve the things we’ve lost, the futures we imagined, the identities we once held, and the changes we never saw coming. Through community reflections and small moments of meaning-making, they explore how we might live alongside grief without rushing to move past it.
The episode closes with a short guided practice from Kristine to support you in whatever version of grief you may be carrying.
TiMeStamPs & ToPiCs:
00:00 – Introduction & why this is the most personal episode yet
01:00 – Deep breaths before a heavy conversation
02:00 – Rituals for grounding and preparing to talk about grief
03:00 – Why structure didn’t feel right for this topic
04:18 – Community responses: Have you experienced grief? How do you view it?
05:30 – Defining grief beyond death: infertility, identity, dreams, transitions
07:00 – Feeling less alone through the podcast and community
08:48 – Elise shares her fertility story, grief, and healing
13:06 – Societal expectations vs. personal desire
16:46 – Kristine shares what it’s like to be in the uncertainty of infertility
19:39 – Grieving something that’s never existed
21:32 – The pain of comparison and stacked grief
24:15 – Yearning as the heart of grief
27:00 – The financial and emotional toll of fertility treatments
29:27 – Unexpected growth, identity shifts, and finding meaning
33:19 – How to support someone who is grieving
36:19 – What grief feels like: vivid metaphors and physical sensations
41:00 – Elise shares how she and Dan came to the decision not to have children
50:00 – Identity, release, and rebuilding life without a role you once imagined
52:10 – Community reflections: what helps you cope with grief
53:08 – Grief and time: the science of experience and memory
57:47 – Beauty and love in new forms: being a present aunt, friend, and guide
01:09:49 – The quote: “To plant a garden is to believe in tomorrow”
01:11:00 – Guided grief practice with Kristine
rEsOuRcEs mEnTiOnEd iN tHe EpiSoDe:
The Grieving Brain: The Surprising Science of How We Learn from Love and Loss by Mary-Frances O'Connor
“There are years that ask questions and years that answer” – Zora Neale Hurston
Elise’s personal Substack essay It Only Has To Make Sense To You
CoNnEcT wItH uS:
@plai.nview on Instagram
Elise Joseph James — elisejosephjames.com
Kristine Claghorn — claggie.com
You can also find us individually over on Substack:
If this episode resonated with you, we’d love for you to like and subscribe! It helps others find Plain View. And if you have thoughts or stories to share on grief, send us an email at plainviewworld@gmail.com, or call the Plain View hotline and leave us a voicemail at (925) 247-VIEW. We’d love to hear from you!
💋 LYLAS,
Elise & Kristine
What a beautiful conversation. Something unlocked for me, Kristine, when you described a certain type of grief in relation to something that was supposed to happen, not happening. It was almost like a path appeared for "acceptable" anger, or at least flailing via this simple re-frame. I'd also never realized that the five stages of grief were initially the five stages of dying and... wow, that says a lot, huh? Elise, I loved what you shared about the deepening of your understanding of your role as an aunt. "There is an energy and capacity ...that I might not have had if I was a mom." That cracked me open as I think about my nephews, god daughter and relationships with the children of close friends. Thank you for such a tender, special episode.